The Ship and its Cargo -- a different answer to the thought puzzle about identity

Someone proposed this thought puzzle (it is not Theseus' ship [Wiki] as will be explained after this puzzle): 

Odysseus sailed from Troy, and it took ten, long years. On the way, due to attacks of animals, sirens, insects, waves, storms, shipwrecks etc. the ship fell apart, piece by piece. As parts failed, they replaced them, one by one. When they arrived home, the ship had every piece replaced. Was the ship that left Troy the same as the one that arrived? 

[Assume this story of the ship is the more accurate one for the thought puzzle.]

It took me a day to think of a good answer for this, and it differs from other answers I've seen in the above Theseus puzzle.

The answer is yes and no.

First, each piece of wood is an individual with strengths and failings as it falls apart, the other parts of the ship have adjusted to this part's strengths and weaknesses, so that the ship's whole integrity is dependent on each part. So when a part fails and is replaced with a new part with strengths and weaknesses, the whole ship had adjusted to the old part and will treat the new part as if it were the old part. The new part has its own identity, but is also being called upon to play a new part. The ship adjusts to the new part's strengths and weaknesses.

This is not unlike a traffic slow down where the accident may be long gone, but the slow down remains. An echo of the old ship always remains. Yet, yes, there are new parts here, flowing through. 

A ship is not a ship without its contents, and in this case the crew create the ship's meaning, it's shipness. How the contents react to the ship--their habits of walking in the same places--creates unique wear, whether the parts are new or old.

If you transfer the contents to a new ship, built by the same people to same specifications, is that the same ship? No. Again, each block of wood employed is different. Also, to borrow from the cognitive-science explanation, the crew would not recognize it as the same.

This applies to humans, who are said to have replaced enough cells in seven years to be a completely new person. Are we still ourselves?

The ship metaphor translates well. Each cell replaced is an individual, yet is shaped by his neighbors. The other cells will be accustomed to certain ways of responding. So yes, sort of a new person?

But it will keep the same cargo, the same contents everywhere it goes--memories, desires, hopes. But these do shift. Is Odysseus the same Odysseus who left Troy? In a sense, yes. His dog recognizes him. He still wants to be with his wife. In a sense, no, his wife does not immediately recognize him. How could he have lived through all he's lived through be the same? But yet some of the same bilge and bilge rats linger.

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Interesting thought experiment: If someone murders someone, are they still a murderer seven years later? I suspect most will have only one answer for that.

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Despite a similar scenario--replacing parts until the new has all new parts--the Theseus ship is different. Quite different [Wiki]:

Theseus, the mythical Greek founder-king of Athens, rescued the children of Athens from King Minos after slaying the minotaur and then escaped onto a ship going to Delos. Each year, the Athenians commemorated this legend by taking the ship on a pilgrimage to Delos to honor Apollo. A question was raised by ancient philosophers: After several centuries of maintenance, if each individual part of the Ship of Theseus was replaced, one at a time, was it still the same ship? 

Here the answer is simply: No and Maybe, depending.

The difference here is the use. Odysseus was the one and only captain/owner. Theseus, meanwhile, has passed on, leaving the ship to descendants whose memory may or may not hold the original crew. A whole different metaphor is at play. The ship is now used for a wholly different purpose: commemoration. After the original passengers have all died and cannot pass on memories of this time, no crew remains to assign it the original meaning. 

It seems likely the scenario arose after a repair and someone, tired of the memorial, wants to know why they bothered remembering this ancient history and raised this thought problem in order to get out of having to repeat this stupid boat trip year every year.

This seems a very human reaction. In the Hebrew Bible--Exodus--the slaves who escape Egypt are supposed to commemorate this escape with a song, but soon they complain about how much better they had as slaves. Memory is short. Also, a very human reaction.

But someone somewhere has recorded the events, and if they did a good enough job, the ship can come close to having its original shipness.

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Hobbes apparently proposed that if someone saved all the discarded parts, would that be the ship? 

Interesting thought experiment, but no. The parts are all rotted and broken although it would be a kind of cool memorial.

Interrupt (story vs. novel) by Jeff Carlson

Note: Another Jeff Carlson short story that became a novel--"The Frozen Sky"--is discussed here.

The story version first appeared in Strange Horizons; however, you can no longer read it there, as Carlson requested that they remove it, perhaps to boost sales to his short story collection, Long Eyes and Other Stories, or maybe because its genre does not resemble the final novel in genre or theme even though the novel uses much if not all of it.

The story tells the tale of Marcus, who like many on the planet, is having black-outs due to the sun's ejecta. He is trying to save humanity or at least capture what has been occurring. But...

I won't say more, but it's theme runs counter to the author's philosophy he expresses in the essay, "Writing About the Apocalypse" (you can hear a sample of it here), wherein he expresses the idea that we humans are designed for conflict, which we make whether it exists or not. Conflict is what life's about. If you think the idea is familiar, you may have read it too quickly. Pay no attention to the 1-star rating, since I believe it is based on the brevity.

Carlson's perspective spurs thought, but it isn't in the story, which may be why he had the story taken down. His philosophical fingerprint manifests in the novel. The quirky life philosophy used to be one of the more exciting aspects of SF. However, these days, too many buy into only one, which is both sad and disappointing since the planet more than seven billion human inhabitants.

The short story isn't science fiction. In fact, it's more interstitial or slipstream in its approach since it dodges the question of why all this is happening, which is what would make the idea SF. The novel actually tackles the idea with some force although you'll have to wade a quarter of the way or so into the novel to arrive, which is where the novel takes off.

The novel has several threads. It opens in a prehistoric time when the solar flares affected hunters and gatherers in their activities. This isn't a throw-away prologue to generate false drama to get the reader pulled in. Rather, parts of this opening chapter will figure in later.

Emily, a genetics researcher studying the recent increase in autism, gets involved in auto accidents that at first seems harmless, but when she sees more serious accidents she realizes something greater is afoot.

Marcus, a computer scientist, is gleaning valuable data about the sun's flares and their increase. And finally we have a military pilot who is engaged in elevated tensions with China that may lead to war.

This is what SF is. The pure quill. Since middle of the story was enriched when Carlson revisited it, perhaps the opening could have been redone--not that it doesn't work.   It does. It lays the groundwork for what follows, but it doesn't quite measure up to the rest. There are some bogus aspects, like suggesting that what's happening may be related to a certain wavelength of light that can be blocked by trees, but if so, that won't penetrate the skull to affect humans, either since it only damages skin.

Still, what's here is astounding, fascinating speculative fodder and it comes together nicely. If only it were possible to ask for an encore....

The novel demonstrates the buried promise of an emerging great SF talent. If it weren't published indie-style, it might have garnered award notice.

"What's Expected of Us" by Ted Chiang

First appeared in Henry Gee's Nature, reprinted by David G. Hartwell, Kathryn Cramer, Lincoln Michel, and Nadxieli Nieto. Read online here.

Summary:

A minor time-machine called the Predictor goes back in time one second to beep that you are about to press it. This, people believe, proves definitively that there is no free will. Despite previous proofs, people actually believe this one.

Commentary with Spoiler

Some become despondent. This story was sent back from one year in the future as a warning. However, the future was going to happen anyway, and people will still become despondent. So what's the point? Why bother?

"Because I had no choice."

Interesting thought experiment. Nonetheless, just because you can learn what you will choose doesn't mean you did not choose it.

Ted Chiang on Genre and the Difference between SF and Fantasy--Specifically Magic Vs. Science

"[M]y work remains close to traditional notions of science fiction. I like performing thought experiments, working through the implications of a speculative idea, and I think that’s something science fiction is particularly well suited for. [G]enre is a kind of conversation that takes place between books and authors over a period of years. [Y]our work is in dialogue with earlier work in that genre.... It’s a conversation I am happy to be a part of."

 --Ted Chiang in Unbound Worlds (interviewed by Peter Orullian)

"[T]here does exist a useful distinction... between magic and science. If... just a handful of special people... turn lead into gold, that implies different things than giant factories churning out gold from lead. The difference... is between the universe responding to you in a personal way, and the universe being entirely impersonal."

--Ted Chiang in The Metahack Interview (interviewed by Avi Solomon). The book is "free" through subscription to Amazon's Kindle Unlimited program.

"Science fiction offers... a story where the world starts out as recognizable... but is ... changed by some new discovery or technology. At the end... the world is changed permanently. The original condition is never restored.... this story pattern is progressive because its underlying message is ... that change is inevitable. The consequences ... are here to stay and we’ll have to deal with them."

--Ted Chiang in The Asian-American Literary Review (interviewed by Betsy Huang)

Ted Chiang on his Work, Translation, Philosophy, and Culture

"To the extent that my work is philosophical fiction, it's not reliant on American culture, and that might make it a good candidate for translation."

--Ted Chiang in The Metahack Interview (interviewed by Avi Solomon). The book is "free" through subscription to Amazon's Kindle Unlimited program.

Ted Chiang on Philosophy in Fiction

"[I]f abstract philosophical questions were the only thing I was interested in, I’d probably write... speculative essays. [P]hilosophical questions are most interesting when they have significant consequences for a person’s life.... 

"[O]ne of the things that interests me as a writer is finding ways to make philosophical questions storyable [that is, the ability to make certain notions or ideas into stories]."

--Ted Chiang in Electric Literature (interviewed by Meghan McCarron)

"I do want there to be a depth of human feeling in my work, but that’s not my primary goal as a writer.... My primary goal has to do with engaging in philosophical questions and thought experiments, trying to work out the consequences of certain ideas."

-- and in The New Yorker (interviewed by Joshua Rothman)

"In Our Block" by R. A. Lafferty

First appeared in Frederick Pohl’s If. Nominated for the Nebula and reprinted in a Year’s Best and genre retrospectives by Donald A. Wollheim, Terry Carr, Robert R. Potter, and Martin H. Greenberg (picked by Neil Gaiman as his favorite fantasy story).

Summary: 

Two gentlemen wander a little known block visiting shanties that weren’t there not long ago. One small shack has trucks enter and leave despite being much smaller than the trucks. One, a stenographer recalls an entire conversation and can type it up in seconds... with her tongue. Another offers to restore hair to any color (though one assumes that any creature could do such a thing one his own. Another cold beer, despite having nothing around.

Discussion:

This seems like a typical if clever little SF story of its day, where aliens have visited Earth and are trying to fit in and improve our lot, yet be evasive about being aliens.

But the title gives a few pauses.

1. “Our”

The story opens:

“There were a lot of funny people in that block.”

So if it’s their block as well, they are one of the funny people, one of the aliens or folk with strange powers (whether supernatural or science beyond our understanding, is unclear).

The stenographer confirms this although its ostensibly a joke that only makes sense after you examine the last word in the title:

"Hi, cousin!"

2. “Block”

Relevant definitions include a) a residential area bordered by streets on four sides, b) something that impedes flow, and c) slang for head.

A is clear. B is relevant as there is a slight memory and understanding problem going on here. It's not just the impossible or improbable are occurring, but people's understanding of it is muddled:

"This is the first steel tape I ever made. Just got the idea when I saw you measuring my shack with that old beat-up one."

If that's true, how did this guy offer one up for sale without knowing what it was?

Likewise, the stenographer says:

"No sense mix up two things at one time.... The ungrammar of the letter is your own, sir." 

She is the one with problematic grammar. Or is she?

The character are blocked mentally from their own reality and identity. Jim Boomer's identifies himself as of the Shawnee tribe headquartered in Oklahoma but his last name indicates a group of settlers who came to farm Oklahoma territory. It's paradox that's solvable if extended out of the past, into the future--where Shawnee and Boomer children intermarry. This becomes a more distinct possibility as the stenographer "cousin" names herself of the Innominee tribe. This derives from the Latin innominatus meaning "nameless."

Note how easily the protagonists succumb to the "alien" reasoning by the end. We assume that the protagonists do not buy the stenographer's explanation of the shack that allows larger trucks to pass through as being able to "cut prices."

"Like the girl says, he cuts prices," Boomer said. 

Boomer closes with this opening idea of funny people being in the block.

What do we make of this lost identity and reality for these characters? Possibilities:

1. In the future we lose ourselves. 
2. Aliens take on our identities and forget themselves.
3. Maybe identity places arbitrary and unnecessary logic limits on the imagination and, therefore, one's ability.
4. Or life is nonsense when examined closely.

A fifth possibility: That all is illusion, but this seems unlikely as the story events would lose relevance.

The Coming AI Apocalypse: Artificial Intelligence in the News

Philosopher's Zone on AI: think again 

WHAT IT TAKES TO Build a smart city 

Chess robots to cause Judgment Day?

Worse, robots are playing soccer...

• although I think I could take on these guys (demo starts about halfway through):

Zuckerberg and Musk back software startup that mimics human learning 

San Francisco startup Vicarious aims to create 'a computer that thinks like a person except it doesn't need to eat or sleep' 

Stephen Hawking Says A.I. Could Be Our 'Worst Mistake In History:'

'Transcendence looks at the implications of artificial intelligence - but are we taking AI seriously enough?' 

How Much Longer Before Our First AI Catastrophe? 

2029: the year when robots will have the power to outsmart their makers:

• Ray Kurzweil, Google expert in artificial intelligence, predicts that by 2029 robots will make jokes and flirt.
• By 2029, Trent goes on a date.
• "Love, exciting and new/Come aboard, we're expecting you" 

What Is The Singularity And Will You Live To See It? 

Why a superintelligent machine may be the last thing we ever invent 

Can we build an artificial superintelligence that won't kill us? 

How Skynet Might Emerge From Simple Physics 

Links: Stories, Halloween, ants

Barbarians (short story prequel to The Runelords) by David Farland

Three audio horror short shorts at Pseudopod (by Joe R. Lansdale, Keith McCleary, and Jaki Idler)

Halloween: Magic, Mystery and the Macabre edited by Paula Guran

31 Days of Halloween (free fiction)

Choose Your Own Philosophy

Ants! (Hormigas on the loose)

• Making aluminum casts of anthills (to see their cities)
• Time-lapse ant tunnels
• Giant anthill in concrete
• Life Inside The Colony

"The Subject Is Closed" by Larry Niven

First appeared in Cosmos.  Reprinted twice by Jack M. Dann, Gardner R. Dozois, and by Darrell Schweitzer, George H. Scithers.  From The Draco Tavern collection.

Aliens approached by Christian for tentative conversion, but these aliens avoid the subject because when explored many committed suicide.  Story provides one possible explanation--too easy to get in to heaven--but others may exist (Lovecraft's answer might be different--more dire).  Interesting little religious/philosophical piece.

The Explicable, Inexplicable, and Opinions

Largely Explicable:

Pictures of sinkholes--formation often caused by underground water forming caves.  When the water's gone, nothing's left to support the earth above it.

Can a zombie plague get us all?  Joan Slonczewski tackles the topic.

Nigh Inexplicable:

Egyptian statue moves

Scientists guess at why the early universe is not evenly distributed:  Multiple universes

Opinion:

The need for more English majors:  Learn how to write

Philosopher Michael P. Lynch connects personhood and privacy (food for thought)

The-World Ends Today (links)

Spider builds its own decoy spider.

The Oatmeal on creating things for the internet (some language)

Cat Rambo on arranging stories in a collection or anthology (second post)

Jeremy Zimmerman on Nisi Shawl and Cynthia Ward's Writing the Other workshop (book).

History of philosophy podcast

Tim Pratt interview

Joe Abercrombie interview

Jeff Vandermeer on favorite story collections

Davd Farland/Wolverton on the impact of story pointing to this article.

Links: Mentoring a Crackling-Real Mars at Lightspeed

News of import from Mars?

Australian mentorship

Free Margo Lanagan story online from her new collection, Cracklescape.

Alastair Reynolds interview with Lightspeed online

Reality of reality

Robert J. Sawyer talks about Mars on the Daily Monocle, beginning at 1:43:30 on #279 from 22/11/12

Dark Side of Town by James Patrick Kelly -- Reader’s Guide

Dark Side of Town by James Patrick Kelly -- Reader’s Guide

Summary: Talisha discovers mechdream pills in her husband’s underwear drawer. She suspects it’s a pricey, sick sex dream, upsetting her because she wants to live in a better place. To get revenge, she asks Ed, an expensive and popular consultant what she should do. He advises her, if she still loves him, to take a pill to see what it’s all about. When he gets home, she tries to rile him, but he is unmoved. She takes the pill and discovers he’s built a new world for them, full of cars and a better home.

Questions:

What are two ways of reading Werefolk? You will probably read one way on your first reading and a different way on the second.

When Talisha asks if Ricky thought she was stupid and lists evidence to the contrary, are these good evidences?

In terms of philosophical debates, “everyone said that” is a what? Name and define it. How does “everyone said that” play out this time?

Explain the undermining of Talisha’s understanding of Werefolk through the images here: “Just before the camera could reveal that the beautiful young man wasn’t wearing any pants either, the ad cut away to an older roundish woman in a daisy-print dress.

Describe the irony here: “Who was doing for Talisha? ‘Call Ricky,’ she said.”

Why doesn’t Ricky react to Talisha’s anger?

How does the quote from Hegel tie in thematically?

Make a list of how Talisha in her anger sees Ricky and how his actions show something else. For example, Ricky and his beer might suggest to some he is a lush; however, Talisha notes that it only takes three to get him going. Also, how does Talisha feel about Ricky, despite her anger-colored vision.

What is the point of the title?